Discussion:
[Info-vax] Original list price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Mark Wickens
2008-12-19 09:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi group,

I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of a VAXstation 4000/90?

Thanks for the help,

Mark.
nierveze
2008-12-19 11:55:52 UTC
Permalink
hello from decdirect catalog 1993
the vaxstation 90 +monitor monochrome +1go hd=112500francs (1usd=5.3francs
now ,how much in 1993?),to get coulours add 25000 francs....
5000 usd !!! you need to buy the keyboard not included and add 1500f
(500usd) ,and also the power cord for 35f (7usd) all that of course only the
hardware ,no vms or license .
To fix the ideas here in France at that time it was the 1/3 of the cost of
my home where all the family lives since that time ,and the cost of two or
maybe three ordinary cars .
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Mark Wickens" <***@wickensonline.co.uk>
Groupes de discussion : comp.os.vms
À : <info-***@rbnsn.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 19 décembre 2008 10:22
Objet : [Info-vax] Original list price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Post by Mark Wickens
Hi group,
I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Thanks for the help,
Mark.
_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
nierveze
2008-12-19 11:55:52 UTC
Permalink
hello from decdirect catalog 1993
the vaxstation 90 +monitor monochrome +1go hd=112500francs (1usd=5.3francs
now ,how much in 1993?),to get coulours add 25000 francs....
5000 usd !!! you need to buy the keyboard not included and add 1500f
(500usd) ,and also the power cord for 35f (7usd) all that of course only the
hardware ,no vms or license .
To fix the ideas here in France at that time it was the 1/3 of the cost of
my home where all the family lives since that time ,and the cost of two or
maybe three ordinary cars .
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Mark Wickens" <***@wickensonline.co.uk>
Groupes de discussion : comp.os.vms
À : <info-***@rbnsn.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 19 décembre 2008 10:22
Objet : [Info-vax] Original list price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Post by Mark Wickens
Hi group,
I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Thanks for the help,
Mark.
_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
Tom Linden
2008-12-19 17:38:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:55:52 -0800, nierveze
Post by nierveze
hello from decdirect catalog 1993
the vaxstation 90 +monitor monochrome +1go hd=112500francs
(1usd=5.3francs
now ,how much in 1993?),to get coulours add 25000 francs....
http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/cgi/fxplot?b=USD&c=FRF&rd=%2A&fd=1&fm=1&fy=1993&ld=31&lm=12&ly=1993&y=daily&q=volume&f=png&a=lin&m=0&x=
Post by nierveze
5000 usd !!! you need to buy the keyboard not included and add 1500f
(500usd) ,and also the power cord for 35f (7usd) all that of course only the
hardware ,no vms or license .
To fix the ideas here in France at that time it was the 1/3 of the cost of
my home where all the family lives since that time ,and the cost of two or
maybe three ordinary cars .
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
Groupes de discussion : comp.os.vms
Envoyé : vendredi 19 décembre 2008 10:22
Objet : [Info-vax] Original list price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Post by Mark Wickens
Hi group,
I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Thanks for the help,
Mark.
_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
Mark Wickens
2008-12-20 11:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Linden
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:55:52 -0800, nierveze
Post by nierveze
hello from decdirect catalog 1993
the vaxstation 90 +monitor monochrome +1go hd=112500francs
(1usd=5.3francs
now ,how much in 1993?),to get coulours add 25000 francs....
http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/cgi/fxplot?b=USD&c=FRF&rd=%2A&fd=1&fm=1&fy=1993&ld=31&lm=12&ly=1993&y=daily&q=volume&f=png&a=lin&m=0&x=
Post by nierveze
5000 usd !!! you need to buy the keyboard not included and add 1500f
(500usd) ,and also the power cord for 35f (7usd) all that of course only the
hardware ,no vms or license .
To fix the ideas here in France at that time it was the 1/3 of the cost of
my home where all the family lives since that time ,and the cost of two or
maybe three ordinary cars .
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
Groupes de discussion : comp.os.vms
Envoyé : vendredi 19 décembre 2008 10:22
Objet : [Info-vax] Original list price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Post by Mark Wickens
Hi group,
I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of a VAXstation 4000/90?
Thanks for the help,
Mark.
_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
So by my rudimentary calculations a colour 4000/90 was about $25,000 or
about £17,500 using todays exchange rate.
j***@yahoo.co.uk
2008-12-26 17:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wickens
Post by Tom Linden
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:55:52 -0800, nierveze
Post by nierveze
hello from decdirect catalog 1993
thevaxstation90  +monitor monochrome +1go hd=112500francs
(1usd=5.3francs
now ,how much in 1993?),to get coulours add 25000 francs....
http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/cgi/fxplot?b=USD&c=FRF&rd=%2A&fd=1&fm=1&fy=19...
Post by nierveze
5000 usd !!! you need to buy the keyboard not included and add 1500f
(500usd) ,and also the power cord for 35f (7usd) all that of course only the
hardware ,no vms or license .
To fix the ideas here in France at that time it was the 1/3 of the cost of
my home where all the family lives since that time ,and the cost of two or
maybe three ordinary cars .
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
Groupes de discussion : comp.os.vms
Envoyé : vendredi 19 décembre 2008 10:22
Objet : [Info-vax] Original list price of aVAXstation4000/90?
Post by Mark Wickens
Hi group,
I was wondering if anyone could lay their hands on the original list
price of aVAXstation4000/90?
Thanks for the help,
Mark.
_______________________________________________
Info-vax mailing list
http://rbnsn.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_rbnsn.com
So by my rudimentary calculations a colour 4000/90 was about $25,000 or
about £17,500 using todays exchange rate.
Not a bad first guess. Here's a different approach for a slightly
different part, apologies for the delay (not due to anything exciting
like icestorms etc, just routine stuff like Christmas).

I just accidentally found my wonderful October 1994 DECdirect UK
catalogue. Prices weren't included, iirc much to the disgust of
UKDECdirect management (Ian Waring, where are you now? [1]), as HQ
considered that end user pricing was a matter for "the channel" -
after all, you wouldn't want these things to be easy to buy, would
you, you had to have "the channel" add their value, eg tell you how
much it was going to cost and tell you how long you'd have to wait
because they had none in stock [2]. Fortunately, and remarkably, I
still have reseller CSF's price supplementwith the catalogue. I have a
couple of other catalogues but they don't have their pricelists.

Anyway, the $64k question: a VAXstation 4000 90A (note the A, which
makes it faster than the original 90) with 21" colour monitor, package
part number DH-PV71U-BC, shows up at GBP16000. 16MB ECC included (max
128MB), 1GB disk included, expandable to 25GB. 1280x1024 24bit
graphics.

CSF no longer exist as such, though bits of the business have gone
elsewhere under different names.

I may be able to scan the relevant pages if that would be useful, but
it likely won't be for a week or more as I'm otherwise occupied for a
few days and I know my trusty ancient HP scanner didn't work last time
I tried it, and I couldn't quickly fix it back then.

Seasons greetings, all the best for 2009, etc.

[1] Ian Waring now: http://www.ianwaring.com/
[2] Exceptions applied; a few resellers did have a clue, and
occasionally they had stock.
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
2008-12-27 12:27:26 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by j***@yahoo.co.uk
Anyway, the $64k question: a VAXstation 4000 90A (note the A, which
makes it faster than the original 90) with 21" colour monitor, package
part number DH-PV71U-BC, shows up at GBP16000. 16MB ECC included (max
128MB), 1GB disk included, expandable to 25GB. 1280x1024 24bit
graphics.
Let's see---I have one of those, a 90, 3 or 4 60s, all with more than 16
MB memory, several other VAXes, seveal ALPHAs, several 21" colour
monitors, several hundred GB of disk space, diverse CD-ROM and tape
drives and lots of small stuff like keyboards, mice, cables etc. I
suppose that all of my gear together cost about 1 million when it was
new. Today, or even 10 years ago, most of it could be had for free
(which is how I obtained most of it).
Michael Kraemer
2008-12-27 21:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
Let's see---I have one of those, a 90, 3 or 4 60s, all with more than 16
MB memory, several other VAXes, seveal ALPHAs, several 21" colour
monitors, several hundred GB of disk space, diverse CD-ROM and tape
drives and lots of small stuff like keyboards, mice, cables etc. I
suppose that all of my gear together cost about 1 million when it was
new. Today, or even 10 years ago, most of it could be had for free
(which is how I obtained most of it).
10 years ago the VS 4000s still had some value
and I guess quite a number of them (400000 ? :-) were probably still
in productive use for legacy apps.
Even today a VS4000/90 would have its price when put up for auction.
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
2008-12-27 21:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Kraemer
10 years ago the VS 4000s still had some value
and I guess quite a number of them (400000 ? :-) were probably still
in productive use for legacy apps.
Even today a VS4000/90 would have its price when put up for auction.
Maybe, though I have gotten such machines for free. (Not that I'm
thinking about auctioning them off!)

I think the 4000 is my favourite machine. Reasonably fast (at least for
a VAX), small, quiet, low power consumption, SCSI, easy-opening case,
very structured layout inside, easy to work on, light (due to the
plastic case), reasonable graphics. And they run forever.
urbancamo
2008-12-27 20:36:00 UTC
Permalink
John,

Thanks for the info. If you get a chance a scan would be fantastic.
College bought me a DEC Alpha AXP 3000/600 in 1994 with 64 MB RAM, a
colour 21" monitor, 24 bit graphics card, DAT 4GB tape drive and 2 x
1GB hard drives and if I remember correctly it was about £12,000.

So I guess the strange thing that crosses my mind is why a VAX
4000/90A would cost more than an 3000/600?

Regards, Mark.
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
2008-12-27 20:47:48 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by urbancamo
College bought me a DEC Alpha AXP 3000/600 in 1994 with 64 MB RAM, a
colour 21" monitor, 24 bit graphics card, DAT 4GB tape drive and 2 x
1GB hard drives and if I remember correctly it was about £12,000.
So I guess the strange thing that crosses my mind is why a VAX
4000/90A would cost more than an 3000/600?
Two reasons. First, the VAXstation 4000/90A was one of the fastest
VAXes ever, top of the line. The DEC 3000 was a relatively low-end
machine (though the 600 was one of the better 3000s). Also, the DEC
3000 came out a couple of years after the VAXstation 4000/90A, IIRC.
That's a long time in the computer business. (I remember pricing RAM
back in the middle of the 1990s---DM 100 per MB. What are the prices
today?)
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-12-28 01:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply
In article
Post by urbancamo
College bought me a DEC Alpha AXP 3000/600 in 1994 with 64 MB RAM, a
colour 21" monitor, 24 bit graphics card, DAT 4GB tape drive and 2 x
1GB hard drives and if I remember correctly it was about £12,000.
So I guess the strange thing that crosses my mind is why a VAX
4000/90A would cost more than an 3000/600?
Two reasons. First, the VAXstation 4000/90A was one of the fastest
VAXes ever, top of the line. The DEC 3000 was a relatively low-end
machine (though the 600 was one of the better 3000s). Also, the DEC
3000 came out a couple of years after the VAXstation 4000/90A, IIRC.
That's a long time in the computer business. (I remember pricing RAM
back in the middle of the 1990s---DM 100 per MB. What are the prices
today?)
~$90 US/Gigabyte for PC RAM. RAM for obsolete DEC hardware may still be
astronomical! DEC didn't use standard parts if they could squeeze a
little more performance out of custom hardware. (And charge an arm and a
leg for it!)

--
draco vulgaris
JF Mezei
2008-12-28 03:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
little more performance out of custom hardware. (And charge an arm and a
leg for it!)
Which begs the question:

Where did DEC store all the arms and legs it collected from customers ?

It says a lot about loyalty we had to DEC when we willingly parted with
our arms and legs just to get some DEC branded components :-)
Michael Kraemer
2008-12-28 10:19:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JF Mezei
Where did DEC store all the arms and legs it collected from customers ?
Converted into dog food and stored at a secret place,
together with those 400000 systems.
Michael Kraemer
2008-12-28 10:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
~$90 US/Gigabyte for PC RAM. RAM for obsolete DEC hardware may still be
astronomical!
Yes, if you buy it from a reseller.
But I was able to obtain RAM parts for VAX-
and DECstations (all extremely proprietary stuff) for a
few Euros off eBay or on similar occasions.
You need patience, though.
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
DEC didn't use standard parts if they could squeeze a
little more performance out of custom hardware. (And charge an arm and a
leg for it!)
Most of the hardware makers did that back in the old days.
HP for instance used bulky memory "sticks" (cards) in their Snakes
and series 400,
and even what looked like standard PS/2 in fact wasn't.
Michael Kraemer
2008-12-27 21:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by urbancamo
So I guess the strange thing that crosses my mind is why a VAX
4000/90A would cost more than an 3000/600?
Maybe by 1994 DEC have learned that one has to stay
price competitive ?
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-12-28 01:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Kraemer
Post by urbancamo
So I guess the strange thing that crosses my mind is why a VAX
4000/90A would cost more than an 3000/600?
Maybe by 1994 DEC have learned that one has to stay
price competitive ?
DEC NEVER learned to be price competitive! That's one of the reasons
why DEC is no more!!
Michael Kraemer
2008-12-28 10:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
DEC NEVER learned to be price competitive! That's one of the reasons
why DEC is no more!!
Well, VAXen were ridiculously priced,
which worked only if customers had to stick with VMS.
But the alphas, intended to be sold into the Unix segment,
were priced more in sync with reality.
But still they would have lost biddings because
price/performance wasn't right and alpha appeared
much to late to save the company.
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-12-28 15:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Kraemer
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
DEC NEVER learned to be price competitive! That's one of the reasons
why DEC is no more!!
Well, VAXen were ridiculously priced,
which worked only if customers had to stick with VMS.
But the alphas, intended to be sold into the Unix segment,
were priced more in sync with reality.
But still they would have lost biddings because
price/performance wasn't right and alpha appeared
much to late to save the company.
It wasn't just VAXen that were ridiculously priced! Ridiculous pricing
was part of the DEC culture (or something like that).

Remember the DEC Rainbow? $5000 with hard disk. The disk was priced at
something like $2200. I bought my Rainbow used for $900 and a disk
for $300. The memory expansion card was around $700 and 32K of memory
was another $700 or so. I bought a used memory expansion card for much
less than list and paid $32 for a set of memory chips.

Ca. 1984 VT-100 terminals were something like $2000 each. I bought
third party terminals (VT-100 compatible) for about $500 each. When
Princeton University declined to buy a terminal for my office and my
exclusive use, I bought my own but it wasn't DEC. I sold it to a
co-worker when I left for about half what I paid for it.

DEC either could not or would not compete! I don't know if it was could
not or would not but failure to compete killed them!

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